Posts by Muddy Waters

19

[MP3] The District Conventions from the 1950s to the 2010s

by possible-san in

well, if you click the "theme" of each talk, you can listen to the talk by mp3.. in particular, with respect to the mp3s of the dcs in 2010 and 2011, you can listen to most of them.. .

http://www.centralprint.net/jwtalks/dc/conventions.html.

.

Muddy Waters

Oh my goodness.... those conventions in the "old days" were 8 days long... started around 8:00 am and went till 9:00 or 9:30 pm. Just looking at some of the day's programs from way back when.... wow.... can't imagine doing anything like that today.

38

''I love the organization''

by punkofnice in

..........said mrs punk!.

this was how she justified screaming abuse at me an slamming doors when she overheard me tell a bloke who was about to get baptized why i quit the meetings.

in fairness i wouldn't have said a thing but he asked me.

Muddy Waters

When I was an active member, I totally believed it with all my heart. I believed the WTS was truly being used by the most powerful creative spirit person in the universe.

I even believed that every word and direction from the elders was directly from Jehovah.

I gave up my whole youthful adulthood for the society, this giant publishing company, thinking they really were God's true respresentatives on the earth. I believed it with utter devotion and intensity (gag). Anything spoken against it was seen as though coming directly from Satan.

Oh yes, I was a true believer all right. The scales have been progressively falling from my eyes, but it's been a very painful process.

62

Bizarre statement in April 2012 Awake

by dozy in

as books go, it is tiny, but it is immeasurably great in its essence.

it can be carried in ones pocket,but if it were found in a library of 90,000 different books, it would probably turn out to be the most important one of them all.. wow a strong endorsement of the bible?

er no this is the wtbts we are talking about here.

Muddy Waters

Thank you, NoRoomForGeorge.... I looked up the "well-known writer in Mexico" and found this on Wiki.... the last sentence is quite "interesting"!

Juan J. Orosa is a Mexican writer, born in México City in 1969. In 1987 he began studying physics at the National University (UNAM), but a year later changed to engineering; two years later he founded his own company. Dissatisfied, Juan decided to leave everything and move to the beach at Chicxulub, Yucatán , where he started his formal writing career.

In 2003 he was awarded with Ramón Zorrilla medal for his short story "Inconsolable". In 2002 he finished his first novel, Los extraviados (ISBN 9685679002), and in 2004 the second Succubus (ISBN 9685679274), both published by Sexto Piso. His works are thrillers that show a sense of irony that evokes Stanislaw Lem and Boris Vian.

22

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-15-2012 WT Study (TEMPORARY)

by blondie in

jw
friends

they were strangers and temporary residents.

from the world, satans wicked system.

as temporary residents in this wicked.

Muddy Waters

Blondie, Thank you for your interesting comments and references!

I found your comments on paragraph 12 and 13 to be particularly enlightening (highlighting the actual cruelty and hard-heartedness of the Society toward its own faithful elderly ones) ....

***w06 6/1 p.6***

What, though, if an older brother or sister in the congregation is in dire straits, perhaps needing financial assistance? First, it would be good to find out if there are children or other relatives who can help. (and this includes non-jw relatives) This would be in line with what is stated at 1 Timothy 5:4: “If any widow has children or grandchildren, let these learn first to practice godly devotion in their own household and to keep paying a due compensation to their parents and grandparents, for this is acceptable in God’s sight.” It may be that the elderly one needs assistance in determining if he or she is eligible for any provisions that the government makes available.

Horrible! Shocking, astounding. They really don't want to care for their own, do they, when these older (or sick) ones can't be good producers for them anymore....

- Muddy

38

Please can we all have a go at describing and celebrating our different NEW IDENTITIES, versus our OLD WBTS IDENTITY?

by Fernando in

at one time most of us here identified as jws who follow the wbts gb/fds who claim to follow the bible etc.

some of us are journeying to a new identity, others may feel they already have a new identity.. although we likely have gone in many different directions, we share a common past which only ex-members can really understand and explain.

please could we each respectfully share and celebrate our unique perspectives of where we have come from, and where we each are now at on this journey?.

Muddy Waters

Terry, that was an AWESOME post. You said,

" Once disfellowshipped or after having "faded" we are mentally and psychologically "under house arrest" for an extended period of time.

The pressure is almost unbearable.

We have lost something HUGE: a firm grasp on the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY and Authority behind it.

Going from one end of the absolute (Truth) to the other end---(uncertainty and dread) is a whiplash.

How do you scratch THAT itch?

Some become born-again so that God can utterly forgive them, love them, accept them.

Some become raging iconoclasts with fangs and claws bared.

Others keep going over the "scene of the crime" looking for clues as to what went wrong.

It takes time to become WHO YOU REALLY ARE."

I am SO experienceing this right now. Going from certaintly and absoluteness and total trust in what you thought you knew -- to nothing. To being without clarity or focus. Feeling adrift, alone, betrayed. It IS just like a whiplash. I've developed a stupid nervous tic near my eye and feel much despair and anguish. I can only hope this painful process of trying to figure things out does not take me too long!

Thank you for your post.

- Muddy

18

March 1st WT

by undercover in

there's an article in the new public edition entitled, "should you trust your first impressions?".

in the article there's the sub-headings, "judging by appearance" and "appearances can be deceptive".

the main import of the article is to impress upon the non-jw to not pre-judge jws based on pre-convieved notions.

Muddy Waters

After years of analyizing the pictures in the publications, especially for the WT study, I note this:

NONE of the others (can you gues which one is not like the others, Sesame Street song playing in my head, but I digress) anyway, NONE of the others have a BIBLE. Meaning that they don't use the Bible, or misuse it, or some such. The JW is the only one holding (thus properly using) the scriptures. Or maybe he's holding a Proclaimer's book...... ha.

Also, they are all standing in front of their giant fancy buildings, buildings which prominently display a cross, while the JW stands in front of..... nope, no giant WT buildings, just some blurry shadow, though he is pictured as standing in a path of LIGHT, while the others stand in shadows and are in comparative darkness.

Wow, I should be at that WT study, LOL. ;)

- Muddy

PS -- not to change the subject, but HOW in the world do I change my avatar?

31

The Governing Body was at the meeting tonight

by wannabefree in

i gave in and went to the meeting tonight.

first thursday meeting in a couple of months ...

the whole congregation bible/book study was praise and worship of the governing body!.

Muddy Waters

Hm. I find this most interesting, especially the service meeting part. I wonder if Acts 10 was used by other brothers (following an outline?) to say the same thing, about "accepting changes from the faithful slave, even when shocking." !!!!!

This makes me wonder if they're preparing us for some "new light" or new announcements…..

And yes, Azazel, the average JW has no clue who the GB are! It's quite a mystery to most. They may know or recognize one or two names or faces, but in my experience that's about it!

17

Am only now discovering/reading the Apocrypha

by Muddy Waters in

i was never a born-in jw, got baptized when i was 20 after being raised and belonging to a denomination of a protestant church.

so i never even knew that there was a "catholic" bible or extra bible books (the authenticity of their belonging in the canon or not is a debatable issue, and one i certainly have no answers about it!).

i knew through my study with jws that there were some "extra" books written, but since i believed everything the wt said hook, line, and sinker, i just went along with their explanation that they were not part of the bible canon.

Muddy Waters

WOW, you guys are so AWESOME!!!! THANK YOU for all the links to such great sites and resources. Sorry for not getting back to you all sooner, was away for most of the day.

STRYMECKIRULES, I loved that site: sacred-texts.org !! I've ordered some of the info already, lol. The site is HUGE and has so much information, I could be reading forever. Amazing what's out there!! Thank you!!

BELLA: I am quite loving the book of Sirach! Is Judith the one where somebody went blind after a birdie pooped in his eyes? Maybe that's Tobit…. I'll have to take another look at Judith. What are your thoughts about it? (excuse me if I still sound like I'm at a JW meeting, LOL!)

SHANA: Wow, that's quite a link as well which you recommended. I have definitely bookmarked it and am starting to check it out. It's neat having so many historical writings, unbelievable because I never knew until now just how much is out there! It would take a dozen lifetimes to go through everything. Funny how the Catholics took stuff out, and the Protestants took stuff out that the Catholics left in…… hmph. It really is up to the individual to make up their own mind, isn't it. Thank you as well for your link and recommendations. :)

SERENITYNOW: Ha, had to laugh because when I went into the store and bought a Catholic bible, I was really feeling like I was doing something very bad. When I saw those extra books in the Bible, I was wondering if the bible would burst into flames or something. But my curiosity overcame my fear, and even as I began reading, my mind was very critical and closed off. I am still filtering so much stuff through a JW "lens", it will take a long time, I suspect, for anything to begin having clarity or non-bias.

AZAZEL: (ha, your name! The goat that wandered off into the wilderness…!) The NWT is still so familiar to me that when I read another translation, I have to constantly compare it to verses I'm familiar with from that text. And many times I've been surprised to see an almost totally different meaning! The very expressions in the NWT are misleading and quite biased (the word "apostate" in the NWT is translated as "godless" in many other versions, for example. And when the NWT says "nations", most other translations use "Gentiles". Again, a whole different shade of meaning!) And THANK YOU for the link to e-sword. I've downloaded it to my computer (had to get another program to open it, as I use a mac). It looks AWESOME (seems like I'm using that word a lot, LOL!) I can't wait to use this program more fully. Thank you again!

MORBIDZBABY: That's amazing about your mom finding the NWT so difficult to read after using your NIV! Right now I'm finding I quite like the NRSV, it's so crisp and concise (am so used to the wordiness of the NWT, it feels like a breeze, like a totally different Bible!) It's also very weird that the GB/Society discourages us from using other translations! That just bogglers my mind.

Again, thank you all so much for your great replies, insights, recommendations, experiences, sharing which Bible versions and apocryphal books you enjoy, and the fantastic websites.

17

Am only now discovering/reading the Apocrypha

by Muddy Waters in

i was never a born-in jw, got baptized when i was 20 after being raised and belonging to a denomination of a protestant church.

so i never even knew that there was a "catholic" bible or extra bible books (the authenticity of their belonging in the canon or not is a debatable issue, and one i certainly have no answers about it!).

i knew through my study with jws that there were some "extra" books written, but since i believed everything the wt said hook, line, and sinker, i just went along with their explanation that they were not part of the bible canon.

Muddy Waters

I was never a born-in JW, got baptized when I was 20 after being raised and belonging to a denomination of a Protestant church. So I never even knew that there was a "Catholic" Bible or extra bible books (the authenticity of their belonging in the canon or not is a debatable issue, and one I certainly have no answers about it!)

I knew through my study with JWs that there were some "extra" books written, but since I believed everything the WT said hook, line, and sinker, I just went along with their explanation that they were not part of the Bible canon.

(Did anyone notice that in a recent WT study article, from a couple of weeks ago or so, they had a reference to 1 Maccabbees!)

Well, I've gone and picked up a bunch of different Bible translations (am finding the NWT to be very clumsy and weirdly worded, eg. Eph. 6:4, about bringing children up in the discipline and mental regulating of Jehovah... Ph. 2:6, about Jesus giving no consideration to a seizure that he would be equal to God, and many other examples).

I've got the NRSV with APROCRYPHA and the New Jerusalem Bible and the Douhey-Rheims (might have spelled that wrong) and the NIV, Amplified Bible and NAS, lol.... that should keep me busy for awhile.

Anyway, I've been reading the Aprocrypha and while some of the books are a bit strange to me, I am finding that I'm really liking 1 Maccabbees and a book called "Sirach"! Sirach is like Proverbs with more etiquette.... very interesting stuff. I don't know if these books belong in the bible canon or not, but to me, they are ancient writings and are very interesting and historical! They do seem to add a lot of insight (and violence and bloodshed, etc., all the things you'd expect from the OT) and neat viewpoints. Am actually enjoying these writings very much!

26

Hello from Muddy Waters

by Muddy Waters in

well, here's some of my story.

(am leaving out a lot of personal details.).

but i was prompted to look outside the wt because i'd been having doubts and questions for a long time.

Muddy Waters

Thank you all so much for your warm welcome and kind words! I still have to be careful what I say and write because my husband is still a JW and I fear discovery (I'm sure some of you know how that is!)

All kinds of "new things" are entering my mind (hope you don't mind bearing with me as I share this). One of these things is the way I'm beginning to view other people! Suddenly people "in the world" don't seem so evil and horrible and deluded as I've always been led to believe. (well, okay, maybe some people are, but you know what I mean!) I'm becoming way less judgmental of people, and yet when I was an active JW I never even realized I was so arrogant and judgmental!! (You know, the tolerant, patient smile you put on your face whenever you have to deal with "worldly" people, as you smugly feel superior and special….. not that we're supposed to feel that way, but now I realize I was full of that stupid attitude!)

I've a long way to go, a long road ahead to find some kind of closure and clarity and it's very frightening. I've been posting on another forum as well where I've found all kinds of support and help and understanding. There are wonderful people out there! "Apostates" aren't the vicious evil people I've been told they are, my computer hasn't blown up, but I have developed a tic near my eye. Hm.

And oh yes, Ding, I am totally reading the lighter stuff of the bible, mostly Paul's letters. I'm finding that even reading the first four books of the NT (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) is too much a strain, trying to figure out Jesus' words. I'd rather have Paul try to explain it for me right now, lol.

And also, Ding, thank you for making yourself available to PM, I do appreciate that. :)

Tec/Tammy, I found your reply very loving and soothing! Most kind words. I was baptized when I was 20, and now, 30 years later (and getting to be an old lady!) I'm starting to un-submerge all those questions I had and unfaithful thoughts. I've been doing a fade for quite a while… Have you been out for awhile? Were you raised a JW? (Thank goodness my kids never got baptized!!! I am so very thankful for that now!!)

Ziddina, I also thank you for your kind welcome and words. Nice to feel that all this confusion I'm feeling is *normal*, even if I sure don't feel normal! :)

Mummatron, yes that's one horrible book. I asked my grown-up kids about that book and they still remember those pictures! They were so scared of some of those pictures. They have very vivid memories of all those depictions of death and destruction. No wonder they were always afraid to fall asleep without a night light on! My poor little kids…..

JW Gone Bad… I wish I could say more of the things that happened and the harsh edicts the JC pronounced on me, but am very leery of giving too much away. The elders were extremely unfair and had no shred of compassion. It was very shocking to me and went way beyond the things written.

Interested One: Yes, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about with the bible story book! Horrid! How can they depict people SMILING at so many people being killed?? Even the Bible says that Jehovah takes no delight in the death of the wicked. So I really don't get these terrible illustrations.

Mouthy, I had to laugh at your post, and your name!! And thank you also for such kind and insightful words. It is very hard to pray right now, I don't even know to whom to address my prayer! But hopefully that will come as I try to figure it out. I will strive to keep a sense of humor and think of you when I get too overwhelmed.

Black Sheep, no worries! I am in NO HURRAY to get into anything!! I am feeling right now that nobody or religion can ever say they have all the answers! The prophets who had their dreams didn't even know what their dreams meant, and the disciples, who had Jesus walking right among them, didn't even understand what he was saying most of the time!! So I think if God really wanted us to figure it all out, things would be a little more spelled out for us… (I feel kinda scared writing that last sentence, like speaking blasphemy….)

New Chapter, it feels so good not to be alone in this! Because of course there's NOBODY to talk to about these things, I'm even afraid to say anything to my own husband!! Isn't that terrible. And yet Jesus disciples questioned among themselves when they didn't understand something he said (which was quite often!) The WT has a really good hold on us (or did) and I still feel very much the weight of it.

And Blind Willie McTell…. yes, Muddy Waters is an excellent performer! Love the blues! And it's also a fitting name for me right now, as the formerly crystal and pure waters (that I thought was the truth) have become all churned about and mucked up!